The Phantom Project Forum

You mentioned Frank Wildhorn in your review of "The Phantom Lover", so now I'm curious as to what you make of his work.

If I were to make a list of musicals I am ashamed to admit that I like, then Wildhorn's "The Scarlet Pimpernel" is way up there. I don't even like it in an ironic way, I actually think that it is a good show - seriously. There, I've said it.

Being an Aussie boy, I'd never heard of Wildhorn until very recently. I discovered him in a very roundabout way...

I watched the mini-series of "The Scarlet Pimpernel" when it was first broadcast on Australian television. This version has earnt a lot of flack from fans because of Richard E. Grant's very snarky portrayal of the title character, and because this Pimpernel tends to use his sword rather than his wits to solve problems.
But I had never read the novel at the time, so none of these things bothered me. I just fell in love with the story and it made me interested in seeking out the original novel and every other adaptation of this story into other mediums.

Directly after seeing the excellent 80s TV version featuring Anthony Andrews, Jane Seymour and Ian McKellan (my fave thus far), I invested in the original broadway cast recording of Wildhorn's musical.

I noted a lot of similarities between "Pimpernel" and "Les Miserables" (especially since the guy playing Chauvelin had played Javert on the Broadway recording of "Les Miserables") - but not similar enough for me to declare it an outright rip off, as many critics have done.

I was blown away by the grandiloquent menace of songs like "Madame Guillotine" and "Falcon In The Dive", the strident heroism of "Into The Fire", the unabashed romanticism of "Storybook", and the hysterical pitter-patter comedy of "Creation Of Man" and "The Scarlet Pimpernel".... even very commercial power ballads like "You Are My Home" and "Only Love", which were obviously put there in the hopes of yielding a hit single, were both listenable and seemed to fit with the story.

I seriously couldn't understand why this show was hated so much by critics and musical theatre buffs - based on the cast recording, it wasn't high art but it was a masterpiece of popular entertainment.

When an Australian production was announced, I travelled interstate to see it and I had a whale of a time.

Unfortunately, none of Wildhorn's other work has impressed me that much.

"Jekyll & Hyde" is one of my favourite stories, and I hated the way that Wildhorn tacked on a cliched love story to his musical version, instead of just concentrating on the psychology of it's title character(s). "Jekyll & Hyde" I feel is a show that is weighed down by an excess of syrupy power ballads ("Someone Like You", "In His Eyes", "A New Life", "Take Me As I Am") that really wouldn't sound out of place on a Celine Dion album. These kind of songs didn't seem out of place on "The Scarlet Pimpernel", as that story had a strong romantic streak to begin with, but in "Jekyll & Hyde", the romance feels tacked on and distracting. Also, many of Leslie Bricusse's lyrics come across as the result of a head on collision with a rhyming dictionary ("The World Has Gone Insane").

His version of "Dracula" - based on the recordings I've heard - also seems to be weighed down by the idea that every musical has to have a bit of romance in it.

"The Civil War" is a song cycle that was marketed as a musical - and there are some strikingly beautiful songs contained therein ("Sarah", "For The Honour Of Your Name", "For The Glory") but overall it presents an extremely simplistic version of this conflict. Just by listening to this album, you'd think that the ONLY bone of contention was the abolition of slavery and the civil war was much more complex than that.

Despite my misgivings about these works, I decided to give his latest concept album of "The Count Of Monte Cristo" a chance - as it is one of my favourite novels.

Well, it's not a bad album exactly, but it comes across as a "McMusical", in that it doesn't break any new ground and all of the songs seem very conventional and very similar to Wildhorn's other work. And again, he short changes the subject matter by focusing more on romance than upon the complex psychology of the main character.

The saddest thing about Wildhorn's shows, I find, is that each of them contains moments of real beauty that hint these shows could be really great if only they'd been done a little differently - "I Need To Know" in "Jekyll", "For The Glory" in "Civil War", "Every Day A Little Death" from "Count", "The Mist" from "Dracula".

But the whole is never as good as the sum of it's parts with a Wildhorn show - "Pimpernel" being the exception that proves the rule.

I know that critics don't like Wildhorn much. But really, I've liked his music pretty much since I first heard it (I was exposed to Jekyll & Hyde first, followed by Scarlet Pimpernel and Dracula later; he's a favorite of my boyfriend's). I can see why purists dislike it, because it does have an element of pop music to it that definitely isn't in keeping with classical musical theatre, but hell, it entertains and tells its story well, so I have no complaints (though I like all kinds of different musical theatre styles, so I clearly don't know how to discriminate or something).

I listen to the concept recording for Jekyll & Hyde pretty frequently; it's one of my favorite easy-listening musicals, but you're right that I generally yawn and hit fast forward when Linda Eder starts wailing away. It's not that they're bad songs, but they're just not terribly interesting, either. I don't think the story can't have some romance inserted--frankly, I would have preferred more interaction with Lisa/Emma, whose involvement plays into the overarching themes of the story, and less of the hooker with a heart of gold mess--but that just didn't seem to fit at all. But I do love the more Gothic, dramatic music, despite its over-the-top-ness. I think Wildhorn does a great job of telling a classic story in a way that makes contemporary audiences pay attention.

To be honest, I didn't think much of his version of Dracula; I much prefer the Orton/Evans musical for that story, even with the synth use in the concept album. It has its moments, but it's pretty easy to tell that it's an earlier, rougher work. It's interesting to hear the few melodies he recycled in the other musicals, though, and as you mention, there are really nice moments here and there.

I also enjoy The Scarlet Pimpernel. I love the tongue-in-cheek humor, and I think it's as strong as or even stronger than the more popular Jekyll & Hyde in terms of the music itself. To be honest, I've never understood the argument that the character of Chauvelin is a ripoff of Javert; yeah, both men are law enforcement officials who are harrying the Hero Who Lives Outside the Law, but that's the only similarity. They're fundamentally different characters--Javert is steely and duty-bound where Chauvelin is passionate and revolutionary about his cause, Javert is married to the job while Chauvelin definitely has his baser natures right out there on display, Javert truly believes that his cause is righteous and heavenly while Chauvelin is doing it for the betterment of himself and the people, Javert kills himself rather than metaphorically submit to a criminal while Chauvelin is much more self-motivated and has to be dueled down in a blaze of glory. It seems pretty short-sighted to me to say that they're the same; I really don't even see too many similarities. Just contrast "Falcon in the Dive" with "Stars"... aside from Terrence Mann's voice (I love him in both roles, by the way... very versatile), they don't sound at all like the same man.

I was not aware that Wildhorn had a new concept album out! I've been too damn busy around here, apparently. Thanks for the heads-up--I'll check it out and see how it goes. I do love The Count of Monte Cristo.

but hell, it entertains and tells its story well, so I have no complaints (though I like all kinds of different musical theatre styles, so I clearly don't know how to discriminate or something).

My main complaint about Wildhorn's musicals is that a lot of the songs don't really serve the story well, or get in the way of telling the story.

It's like, the story has to come to a dead halt so that Wildhorn can shine the spotlight on his latest attempt at a top 40 crossover hit.

I don't have a problem with pop songs being used in musical theatre - provided they serve some purpose in advancing the story or illuminate some aspect of the character hitherto unknown.

With "Jekyll & Hyde", I felt there were an excess of songs which hammered home a point that had already been well established in a previous song, and other songs whose lyrics weren't story-specific enough.

For instance, how many songs are needed to establish that Lucy is dissatisfied with her profession and yearns for true love and a normal life? Surely only one song was needed to establish this?

And yet we get four: "Girls Of The Night", "No One Knows Who I Am", "A New Life", "Someone Like You"... it's just overkill, and it gives me the impression that Wildhorn is just trying to cram as many potential singles into the show as possible.

I also get that feeling when I listen to songs like "This Is The Moment", which skirt around the story and contain lyrics that are so generalised and non-story-specific. It's not that "This Is The Moment" seems out of character... it's just that it could be sung by anybody psyching themselves up to do anything. You could copy and paste it into another storyline easily.

I had similar issues with "The Civil War" and "The Count Of Monte Cristo".

"The Civil War" contains a great many pop-gospel numbers sung by slaves yearning for their freedom. And much as I feel this is an important issue and integral to the conflict, Wildhorn returns to this theme again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again at the expense of all the other complex political issues underlying the conflict.

The love ballads sung by Mercedes in "The Count Of Monte Cristo" - "When The World Was Mine", "All This Time", "I Will Be There".... they are not bad songs, and they do fit with the character.... but the connection to the story is very slender. These songs could be sung by anybody pining away for their ex. They could be copied and pasted into another story all too easily.

The main reason "The Scarlet Pimpernel" worked so well, methinks, is because of Nan Knighton. She seemed to feel a stronger connection to the story than all the other lyricists Wildhorn has worked with over the years.

To be honest, I've never understood the argument that the character of Chauvelin is a ripoff of Javert; yeah, both men are law enforcement officials who are harrying the Hero Who Lives Outside the Law, but that's the only similarity.

I don't think that the character of Chauvelin is a rip off of Javert, neither do I think that Wildhorn has plagiarised Schoenberg's score for "Les Miserables"..

All I meant to say is that I think Wildhorn was aiming for a similar feeling of grandiloquent pop-majesty with his score for "The Scarlet Pimpernel" (and succeeded IMHO)

The main reason critics are prompted to compare the two characters is because Terrence Mann has played both characters - that and the fact that Wildhorn probably was aiming for "The Scarlet Pimpernel" to become a mega musical blockbuster, and for good or ill, "Les Miserables" and most of the other stuff from the Cameron Mackintosh stable has become a benchmark of the genre in that respect.

I was not aware that Wildhorn had a new concept album out! I've been too damn busy around here, apparently. Thanks for the heads-up--I'll check it out and see how it goes. I do love The Count of Monte Cristo.

I hope you enjoy it.

There were bits I really enjoyed, namely the overture and the more story-specific songs such as "Every Day A Little Death"... but in the main I found it to be very generic, though pretty.

Ben, you seem pretty entertaining, and I'm gonna let you finish.

BUT




Frank Wildhorn is the best composer/lyricist of all time!!!!!

Angry Muppet wrote:Ben, you seem pretty entertaining, and I'm gonna let you finish.

BUT

Frank Wildhorn is the best composer/lyricist of all time!!!!!

LOL!

The best thing about the Kanye/Taylor/Beyonce storm-in-a-teacup (which to me just reeked of being a pre-arranged publicity stunt) was the jokes it inspired on the net.

I''d pretty much finished my argument months ago, I'm just grateful that someone has taken an interest in this forum again who isn't trying to sell a product.

And if Frank Wildhorn is really the greatest lyricist of all time, then he should get off his fatass and write the lyrics to his shows himself - instead of giving work to has-been hacks like Leslie Bricusse and Don Black.

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